Hirth f23 problems17.01.2021
Quick links. Changing or adding equipment, or otherwise modifying an S-LSA? Need help with Letters of Authorization? Or maybe designing your own aircraft? This forum is the place to discuss All Things Experimental. As I have become frustrated with the Sport Pilot licensing route, but still enjoy flying, this presents new possibilities.
Maybe I'm falling prey to the hype, but this one sounds good. It can be a kit or complete, and standard comes with a Hirth F33 2-stroker. My question is, how reliable is this engine? In the '70s I grew up with 2-stroke road and dirt bikes, and found those Yam and Zuki to be strong and reliable, although smoky.
Plugs fouled regularly, and exhaust ports needed to be cleaned now and then, but sooo easy to work on, not a problem. Get the oil mix right and keep the revs inside the redline and everything worked fine. Research on the INET produced very little useful information; a few swear by them, and just as many swear at them.
Knowing the frustrated are more likely to sound off than the satisfied, I'm asking any and all to respond with info, facts, or anecdotes regarding the Hirth aircraft engines, especially the F But I think chicagorandy's response is the best idea.
Aircraft mechanics I have talked to feel that if you stick to the maintenance schedules for them, 2 cycle engines are reliable. I have never flown one The other important thing is your attitude. If you are casual with preflight and before flight testing indications, you should go back to dirt bikes.
Also find yourself a grass strip and keep up practice for engine out landings. Plan your flight route, even a fun hop, that keeps usable landing spots under your tires.
Keep us updated on your research and progress. If you treat one like a four stroke, you are guaranteed to have problems. I expect at least some of the difference of opinion is because some people take time to understand 2 strokes and some don't. That said, I've never flown one, but did the same sort of research you are starting on now, a few years ago. But this old dog knows that advertising "hype" can cover up a lot of defects, hence my concern. U-Fly-It current builder of the Aerolite offers several engine options, and I wouldn't mind paying a little extra for a solid mill.
I can appreciate that they require more attention to maintenance than other engines. I am not knocking the people and it is understandable that without being in the regulated side of aviation their approach is from never having worked in the discipline. If a guy recommends a can of diet coke per 5 gallons of premix, others will either try it or pass along that 'good advice'. It was pretty neat. I like that the covering is sail cloth that is zipped on -- easy and cheap replacement and access to the structure.
I didn't love that it has a yoke instead of a stick, but that's just personal preference.
Hirth F-23 on gyrobee
Overall it looked like a very nice Part machine. Jump to. Who is online Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests. Board index All times are UTC.Posted By: redback June 24, Fuel injected? Hirth Engine? I had never even heard of a Hirth.
It was smoother, had more power, cruised at lower rpms and weighed less than the I was so impressed I decided then and there to get involved with marketing Hirth.Python code injection attack example
Here was a tremendous engine available to us and nobody knew about it. The Hirth engine has a history dating back tofirst making gears and then crankshafts. Some of the Luftwaffe had Hirth four-cycle aircraft engines. It was then that Hirth was bought out by Gobler the company is now called Gobler-Hirthmotoren. Gobler, the new owner, made the decision to combine what Hirth learned from its aircraft days with what it had learned in the two-cycle industry for the express purpose of building two-cycle aircraft engines.
Dandar admits that the Hirth engine has had a slow start breaking into the rotorcraft market. The engine was available only in a free air-cooled version. It was primarily designed to be used in tractor prop aircraft where the propeller cools it. Without the benefit of fan cooling, it was just a matter of time before it overheated and burned the engine up when it was used in a pusher configuration.
Hirth developed fan cooling for the F 4 years ago. Dandar says the Hirth engine produced today is not the Hirth engine of a decade ago. The Hirth has gone through many, many changes. They are not mass-produced. This is why a Hirth engine runs so much smoother than most two-cycles on the market.San diego comic con 2020 cancelled
All these components are expensive But well worth the cost for better reliability and longevity. Nikasil cylinders, according to Dandar, eliminate the need for water-cooling, thus increasing reliability and reducing weight.
The special piston porting and combustion chamber on the Hirth are designed for a linear torque curve with more torque in the mid-range than is normally found in two cycle — resulting in a lower cruise rpm. Most two-cycles are designed to be used with some sort of centrifugal clutch. This allows for much quieter operation, much less fuel burn, less vibration and much less engine wear.
All these design features add up to not only increased reliability, but also a hour rated TBO to boot.A number of problems face manufacturers trying to build a Part ultralight aircraft. That is an aircraft that meets the definition of Part that can be flown without a medical, without registration or a license in the U. Gone are they Rotax, and leaving only the Rotax65 HP, liquid cooled two stroke.
This has forced manufacturers to look for alternative power plants, or in some cases go back 30 years to engines that are still available like the Kawaski and But one manufacturer that has stepped up to the plate, or rather one distributor of engines that has stepped up to the plate to help fill the void is that of Recreational Power distributor of the Hirth line of engines in the U. For years Matt Dandar owner of Rec Power has been providing sales, service and warranty for the Hirth line of aircraft engines.
He has also had his finger on the pulse of the industry and seems to always be one step ahead of the game when it comes to filling "niche markets. Matt has also worked closely with Hirth to come out with a single cylinder 28 hp two stroke engine with electric start and a charging system for part ultralights.
In fact if you check out most of the major producers of true legal ultralight aircraft you will more than likely see the F 33 either pulling or pushing it along.
But some manufacturers need more power to accommodate larger pilots or to allow their ultralight aircraft to fly on floats. Andy has worked closely with Matt over the years as a Challenger dealer equipping his aircraft with Hirth engines. This year Andy became a Quicksilver dealer and that allowed him to work with Matt on a project that Matt and Quicksilver have been working on for several years, the installation of a two cylinder, 50 HP, F 23 twin cylinder opposed aircraft engine, on a single seat Quicksilver Sprint part legal ultralight.
With the ability to mount the F23, with a weight of only 71 lbs. To get the engine to work required the removal of the cylinders and them degrees. Which also requires the pistons to be turned. This allows the carbs to be located on the top of the engine, and puts the exhausts down under the engine. With that done Andy them went about shortening the root tube on the Sprint and building a motor mount. He was aided by knowledge he obtained during the installation of the same engine on a Kolb Firefly.
Andy indicates that he "is very excited about this engine installation, as it now allows the sale of a legal part ultralight with an engine designed for aircraft application, with dual ignition and a reduction drive".
Which means owners now have warranty and parts and service are available. One thing I forgot to mention is that this all started to come together about six weeks before the show and that Andy had to travel to Louisiana to pick up the plane and then get together with Matt to get things rolling! Well did it work? You Betcha!!! AND for the first time that I am aware of we now have a Light Sport Aircraft manufacturer who produces a legal part ultralight aircraft AND has a two seat trainer that they can offer flight training in.
Ultralight Aircraft Magazine - Welcome to the Ultralight Aircraft News our goal is to cover as many aircraft expositions that host aircraft described as ultralight aircraft, light sport aircraft, experimental light sport aircraft, amateur built aircraft, ELSA or homebuilt aircraft that fit into the definition of ultralight aircraft in Canada or light sport aircraft, or experimental amateurbuilt light sport aircraft in the United States.
These include three axis control aircraft, weight shift control aircraft, more commonly known as trikes, powered parachutes, helicopters, gyrocopters and powered para-gliders that meet the light sport or ultralight aircraft definition. PLUS hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of web video interviews with designers, manufactures, builders, and suppliers of ultralight light and light sport aircraft parts and accessories. Quicksilver Sprint with Hirth 50 HP engine, legal part ultralight aircraft!
Quicksilver Sprint Ultralight Aircraft. Quicksilver Sprint.No, James is correct: "a F23", not "an" F Although F is a consonant, it is pronounced "eff", starting with a vowel, so it should be "an F". Post a Comment. Thursday, February 10, Hirth F23 twin has a redundant cylinder. After reading this, some of you will shoot me down. It's OK -- I'm vowing to share what I know, no matter how embarrassing. On this two cylinder engine, one cylinder is optional. Our airport was alive with activity.
My crew was working hard on getting another plane ready for delivery; we'd just swapped a brand new F23 Hirth twin boxer into one of our Belites. This particular plane is headed down to Texas and Florida to be a dealer demonstrator on floats The F23 had already been running for a couple of hours, as we slowly cranked up the power and prepared the engine for first flight. Another person was performing the extended runup. I did a careful preflight, ensuring that everything was OK.
The airframe had already flown, brieflybut it would be a first flight for this particular brand new engine. The electric start on the engine kicked it to life very easily. A check on the 4 point safety harness, and I taxiied out to the active. A quick runup, and I was accelerating down the runway -- albeit slowly. I shut it down and taxied back to the hangar. Realizing that power was low, I quickly and incorrectly concluded that the propeller had the wrong pitch.
I had Gene fetch another with a better bite from our inventory of props, and a few minutes later it was torqued down and ready to go. I taxied out again. I applied full throttle, and the engine powered up smoothly.
So I let it take off. I made a couple of circuits of the field, enjoying the perfect weather, and also enjoying harassing the powered paragliders that were hanging around the east end of the pattern.Sedgwick county police scanner
I sure wasn't happy with the power, though - it just didn't have nearly the snap I'd come to expect from our F33 installations in our Superlite models. I landed the bird and taxied in. As the bird rolled to a stop, I told Gene I still thought we had a real problem with the engine.
He pulled the top off each carburetor in turn, inspecting the linkage. Well, it turns out one of the ball swages on the twin carburetor cables had failed they'd passed a pull test in the vise! So I'd been flying with one cylinder.All-too regularly I hear people lament the high cost of Light-Sport Aircraft. Indeed, some with all the latest equipment do get up in price, but that does not change the fact that many lower priced aircraft are available.
One company, Valley Engineering and their Backyard Flyer series brings several very agreeably priced aircraft to the market.
They are sold as ready to fly, you can have a very fun flying machine right away, for a cost nearly anyone can afford. The Backyard Flyer is usually powered by a four stroke, twin cylinder modified Generac engine. While it is a very fuel efficient and reliable engine it is also heavy. The Hirth F23 on the other hand is considerably lighter, but still comes with electric start and a generating system.
Performance has to be seen to be believed! The craft is airborne in as little as 50 feet and climbs out at well over 1, per minute. The Backyard Flyer is available in both a taildragger and tri-gear version. Ultralight Aircraft Magazine - Welcome to the Ultralight Aircraft News our goal is to cover as many aircraft expositions that host aircraft described as ultralight aircraft, light sport aircraft, experimental light sport aircraft, amateur built aircraft, ELSA or homebuilt aircraft that fit into the definition of ultralight aircraft in Canada or light sport aircraft, or experimental amateurbuilt light sport aircraft in the United States.
These include three axis control aircraft, weight shift control aircraft, more commonly known as trikes, powered parachutes, helicopters, gyrocopters and powered para-gliders that meet the light sport or ultralight aircraft definition. PLUS hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of web video interviews with designers, manufactures, builders, and suppliers of ultralight light and light sport aircraft parts and accessories.Mustang alt wiring diagram completed
The Back Yard Flyer is a single seat part legal ultralight. A unique feature of the Backyard Flyer is that wing is designed to swing 90 degrees, which makes for easier storage. With it's large wing area and light weight the Backyard Flyer ultralight gets off the ground in less than feet. The Backyard Flyer can be configured as a taildragger or tricycle gear aircraft, with a covered or open fuselage.Remember Me?
Advanced Search. Results 1 to 7 of 7. Thread: Hirth F Thread Tools Show Printable Version. Hirth F33 Greetings, I am researching UL's, planning to purchase one, have considered three or four so far.Hirth Aircraft Engines
My problem is, the BYf probably my favorite so farhas a waiting period of a year or more, plus the cost is more than i like. It has the 4 stroke which i would really prefer.
Second is the Belite, however if you choose the 4 stroke, it jumps the price up to around 32k, up from around 17 with a 2 stroke. A Challenger is another choice, however there we go with the 2 stroke. My question, does anyone have first hand experience with a F33?
I read that TBO is around a hours, compared to on a Rotaxplus i've read that all 2 strokes are prone to stop running, especially during idle. So far the F33 would be my 1st choice in a 2 stroke, should i go that way 2 strokejust would like any and all information on these engines, the good and bad of them. Thanks in advance, Jim. Jim, if you go in with the expectation that the Hirth engine will last h, you sure to be disappointed.
Hirth F-23 on gyrobee
Unless they offer some kind of unlimited warranty for that time, it's just a number. Hey Jim. Are you talking about a true ultralight or lightsport? If you meant ultralight, Challenger's are far too fast and heavy. There are very few pound or less true ultralights.
The lightest Challenger will weigh well past pounds. Don't count out 2 strokes. It never let me down. It was overhauled by an authorized Rotax facility with over hours at 15 years old. The mechanic said it looked like a hour engine inside. The crankshaft was in perfect shape so it was reused.
He only did a top end and replaced the seals. At hours it still had good compression and ran as good as new.
The new owner wanted to have it rebuilt for his peace of mind, not because of any problems. In my opinion, a Rotaxor blue head is as reliable as anything out there if it's maintained properly.
They don't just stop running any more any other engine stops running. I'd personally stay with Rotax. They're well proven to be very reliable. I haven't had any personal experience with Hirth but what I've heard and read was not good, long term. Don't let the advertised TBO fool you.Canon eos 80d test photos
Something to think about, if you're going lightsport, think about going with one of the old classics.Logging in Remember me. Log in. Forgot password or user name? Hirth F23 50 hp. Posts Latest Activity. Page of 2. Filtered by:. Previous 1 2 template Next.
Hirth F23 50 hp 26th August Does anyone have experience of using one of these? I'm interested in operating temperatures because I've heard that there can be a problem with CHTs. The engine will be premix rather than oil injection - I've never operated a two stroke and wonder what recommendations will be made about oils. Tags: None. Steve Uzochukwu. Comment Post Cancel. Adrian Jones. He is now importing Hirth engines and has lots of experience of two strokes in general. I would go with Steve's advice about oil.
You should go for a good quality, low deposit, semi-synthetic. Fully synthetic is unnecessary and will absorb more moisture if the engine is layed up, which will affect bearing surfaces. Hirth F23 50 hp Thanks chaps.
It's the carb version Steve. Hirth F23 50 hp Steve - probably worth looking round the internet for sources.
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